Vickly Twomey Lee is one of Ireland’s most committed grassroots community builders in the technology space. After stumbling into organising a Python meetup around 2004/05, she ran it for 11 years before moving on to organise conferences and founding PyLadies Dublin, which grew from a handful of people to hundreds. She also co-founded Coding Grace, a non-profit offering welcoming, hands-on workshops that bring together coders, artists, designers and makers. With a passionate focus on diversity and inclusion, particularly for women, she works to make tech events welcoming for everyone, championing accessibility and fostering connection over competition. In this interview, she reflects on her journey, inclusion, burnout, mentoring and the risks AI poses to the industry.

1. You’ve spent many years building and supporting communities in Irish technology. What first drew you to the tech scene, and what made you decide that community-building should be part of your work?

I fell into it, to be honest. There were hardly any groups when I started out, and I only heard about things through the Irish Linux User Group mailing list (iLUG). When I was involved with Python Ireland in those early days, I was lucky if one or two women turned up to the meetups. I went to an Iona Technologies talk and heard what other companies and people were going through. My colleagues and I were into Python coding, and a Python group popped up around 2004/05. We got sick of sitting in a dark pub around a tiny computer and moved in to help make it more inclusive and welcoming. Nobody was leading it so I put up my hand and ran it for 11 years. At the time, I wasn’t thinking of it as community building; we were more worried about logistics, e.g. speakers, venue host. I was more interested in talking about tech, expanding my network, see what other companies were doing as I was early in my career.

I was involved in running my first conference, which was the inaugural Irish Python conference called PyCon Ireland in 2010. In 2013, I was delighted to have invited PyCon Ireland’s very first female technical keynote speaker, but she was all the way from San Francisco. I reached out to my network across Ireland, but we couldn’t secure any female speakers based here in Ireland. The female technical keynote speaker was a co-founder of SF PyLadies, and she inspired me to launch PyLadies Dublin at PyCon Ireland 2013, which was also my fourth and final year as chair of the conference. And since then, PyLadies Dublin has been running regular events, and growing organically right up to the current day. There weren’t many Python conferences globally around 2010 when we launched PyCon Ireland; there was the main PyConUS, UK, France, Germany, Italy, Sweden, EuroPython, and APAC. When we appeared, the Python Software Foundation (which looks after the Python language and trademark, and runs the main PyConUS) took notice, and their Chair visited us and gave us support at our first local conference. From the early days of Python Ireland meetups where there was a core of six people (and we might have had up to 20 attendees), we grew to see nearly 100 people attending our first Python conference. That number doubled the following year, and doubled again until we reached the maximum capacity of the hotel’s venue space.

As Python Ireland monthly meetup gatherings grew in size, at one point it was over 100 people at an event; it was quite daunting for folks, especially those new to the group. As the organiser for these regular events, I grew to recognise regulars, but if I noticed new faces, being the host, I would make sure they felt welcome and introduce them to people so they could make new connections. I always put myself in that person’s shoes in those social situations, and I want to build a welcoming, inclusive and impactful community.

With PyLadies, I wanted to keep things small on purpose because I wanted to build a welcoming, safe and inclusive community. A place where people can ask questions and not feel awkward joining conversations.

2. You co-founded Coding Grace to create welcoming coding workshops and learning opportunities. What gap did you see, and how has the initiative changed in response to what participants need?

Coding Grace is an Irish non-profit started by me, my husband and a friend. We, along with a few other female software engineers, brainstormed why there were so few girls in coding clubs, and how we could help increase the number of girls getting into coding. Due to various reasons, we didn’t do anything as we were all busy, but I really was itching to do something, so my husband suggested that I should run a small workshop in a cafe. The following year, I ran a workshop at CCT and about 30 women turned up. We ran many workshops to understand what people wanted to learn and why. At the time, I thought of Coding Grace as a community centre; we ran various workshops that were like tasters so folks could try things out and see if they liked certain technologies, upskilling, or figuring out if they wanted to pursue a career in the tech industry. I also had to make sure it was accessible to all. I wanted to make sure each area of tech wasn’t siloed. The workshops covered various core technologies, such as Python, HTML, JavaScript, data to Raspberry Pi, e-textiles, electronics, and right up to game-making with different game engines, but I wanted to make sure that they all interacted with each other too. The only thing I found didn’t work was running things on a Friday evening!

We are always adapting our content and how we do things every time we run workshops and events. For example, with the Python and Electronics workshop series, feedback was that each session was too short and the participants wanted longer sessions. I want our workshops to be fun, and not just learning for learning’s sake. When I facilitate workshops, I want people to enjoy the process, feel confident when they return home to work on their own projects, and know that we are available if they need support.

3. You founded PyLadies Dublin and have helped create spaces for women and others underrepresented in tech. How successful has the initiative been, and what achievements has it won?

It’s not about awards for me. We welcome everyone, and we want people to be themselves and to feel free to ask questions. We’re not there to win achievements. PyLadies Dublin is a place for people to learn about Python and its related technologies, what excites people about Python and coding, a place to find support from peers and to create connections with one another. Secondary to this is career development; with the current tech landscape, it’s understandable that people are worried. Based on conversations with the community, I decided to run a career-focused meetup in September to help those seeking advice on career progression and job hunting. The main focus is building an inclusive community around the love of Python; it’s not a recruitment event.

Running events means you need a space, and finding spaces is difficult. We are lucky to have corporate hosts reach out to us. When we established PyLadies Dublin, we wanted to be different from the usual technical meetups, which consist of two long talks with beer and pizza in between, followed by going to the pub afterwards. We wanted a change from that, especially the beer, pizza and pub afterwards. The community wanted more interactive sessions, not just long talks. We instead try to encourage shorter talks, demos, and time afterwards to code. We also run workshops and collaborate with other technical user groups. COVID changed many things, including technical meetups. I wanted to keep our meetups going by hosting long and short technical talks online. Post-COVID, we started to run in-person meetups again, but the overall general tech community landscape changed, with fewer meetups from other tech communities happening. The PyLadies Dublin organising team has since grown, and we are trying different activities, like tea/coffee socials, study groups, and more workshops

4. What barriers still make it difficult for women and other underrepresented groups to enter and progress in Ireland’s tech sector, and which practical changes would make the biggest difference?

Working from home is a big one. We need to encourage people to go to events and conferences, but European conferences have seen a big drop in companies sending people and letting them expense it. Layoffs, budget reductions and reduced DEI support have impacted the ability to send staff to events. Sponsorship has dropped too, while costs have increased in other areas. Personal circumstances come into it as well. Subsidies can be life-changing for some people who otherwise can’t afford to go. At conferences, you get the opportunity to make connections, network and a chance to talk to folks involved in the development of the technologies you use. Encouraging women to give talks shows others what is possible and gives them confidence, though it is becoming more competitive in this area too.

Social gatherings can exclude people, for example, if these occasions revolve around drinks or golf. People feel left out, and there are in-jokes and cliques. Those softer things make a huge difference to whether people feel included. Community is another huge area: you can’t socialise after work if you have a two-hour commute. The reduction in days working from home also matters a lot, and there is a lot of nervousness about it.

5. You’ve organised events and workshops across different tech communities. What have you learned about making events accessible and inclusive, from choosing a venue and format to supporting people once they arrive?

•   Signage is important to point people in the right direction.

•   Make sure people feel welcome and can mingle, and that everyone knows where to find the facilities.

•   Make sure everyone’s dietary requirements are up to date.

•   Events held in bars and pubs won’t be as inclusive: there may be stairs with no lift, or it could be too noisy.

•   Follow up on feedback. If someone raises an accessibility issue, make sure it doesn’t happen at the next event.

•   Ensure the technical basics are covered, such as Wi-Fi and car parking etc.

•   The city centre is usually best, as it has the best public transport and gets people home on time.

•   Include maps and a phone number in case anyone has issues.

•   Ensure it’s a safe space where people can ask questions without judgement.

•   Treat the code of conduct as a living document. It changes and gets updated; for example, we recently banned smart glasses because things change all the time.

6. Grassroots initiatives often rely on volunteers and sustained personal effort. How do you keep that work going without overburdening the people who make it happen?

It’s pretty much me and my husband, who supports me by helping with workshops and doing things like setting up and tidying up afterwards. It’s about understanding that volunteers are giving their time and that other things take priority too. I try to delegate, but I have burnt out a few times. My husband, friends and family keep me going and can spot the signs. When I delegate, I tell people I’m there if they need me.  For example, with PyLadies Dublin, if folks want to run a social gathering in town, they can run with it without me being present. I am happy to offer support like setting up an event page and sharing about the event on socials. It took a lot to let go of running Python Ireland after such a long time, but I trusted the community who worked with me in understanding the ropes during the lead-up to me handing over the reins. I have been getting better at letting go and saying “no” to things, and I want to work out which of the things I do are most impactful.

Finding volunteers is really difficult at the moment, as other priorities take over, though it differs between organisations. I can’t find enough volunteers to take things over, so I try to find initiatives for them to take on, and I’ll support them. It is understandable to be afraid to take those first steps.

I’m very lucky to have lots of family, friends and community to support me, but I also try to be self-aware about burnout.

7. What role have mentors, role models and peer networks played in your own career, and how can employers make those supports meaningful rather than token gestures?

Early in my career, I made friends with everyone in different departments. At one stage, they realised I liked to dabble in web design, so I helped redevelop the company’s website, which only came through networking. You can’t expect someone to mentor you. Early in my career, I had a hard time asking for help because due to my experience witnessed in my undergraduate days, I felt it wasn’t safe to ask questions or ask for help. That’s why I’m so adamant about it now: do offer that help. You have to learn it from somewhere. Right now, people are anxious about showing weakness, or may not have the knowledge or expertise.

Sometimes it’s not even about mentoring. It’s about being aware of people speaking, not talking over them and not dismissing their ideas. It’s about character building, and everyone in the meeting can see it. It spreads from there.

8. You’ve worked across coding, game jams and maker culture. What can these creative, hands-on activities offer people who might not see themselves represented in traditional routes into technology?

When I was in school, I never saw the combination of arts and tech as an opportunity for me. As subjects, they are separate and you see this in schools, although that is changing for the better.
I always say It’s not STEM, it’s STEAM. I loved the visual side of things at school, and I loved the visual side of things when I was at school, and I was doing creative tech before it was a term. You see films and think about how a really simple process mixing arts and crafts can create an amazing visual effect. Anyone can be a coder; it’s just a question of different levels of experience.

Hands-on activities are getting more popular. In the electronics workshop we ran, people said they wanted to do something physical, get off doomscrolling and get into hands-on making, for example, Halloween costumes or designing exhibits, crossing over technology and art. There are other projects like pollution detectors, and I like the non-traditional routes into this, because they match your interests to the technology that suits your project. I want to create events I enjoy so that others can enjoy them too.

9. As AI tools and the tech industry evolve, what opportunities or risks do you see for inclusion, and what should educators, employers and community organisers pay attention to?

I don’t have a positive view of AI. It leads to biases against people from minority backgrounds, for example in security cameras and in the use of AI in hiring. Many corporates are not taking on juniors, and those who are still in the industry are burning out, especially the senior people. The slop is just increasing, for instance, folks that have to deal with it especially around code reviews where answers to their questions are just prompts back. Those who just copy and paste prompt responses are also known as meat proxies.

We don’t know where this is going, and it’s changing very fast. It’s very worrying because guardrails have been removed, and it’s hugely disruptive to the environment. Two or three years ago, everyone got excited, but I was anxious. I worried about the code you’re using, for example, whether it shows up in audits and affects software licensing. That concern now seems quite quaint. A few years later, the problems are much bigger, and their impact hasn’t been measured yet. Some tools can enable people to create a product or an MVP, for example, and they can be great for trial and error, but I hope that doesn’t replace a real person at the end of the process. I’m a bystander at the moment, and I refuse to use anything to do with generative AI. I know there are really good projects using this technology but they are overshadowed by overly hyped projects. These are the projects I want to hear about from research and implementation. But it’s the scale and speed at which it’s growing in this industry that worries me, along with overdependence on it. Let’s see what happens.

With little or no hiring of juniors, and increasing use of AI technology screening jobs, it’s getting increasingly hard for juniors (and many others) to get into the industry. There’s going to be a big gap when those in senior positions leave the industry, who will take over those senior positions?

10. Are there any people, companies or programmes in the tech space in Ireland currently that you think are up and coming in this area or that you think deserve a special mention for their work in the DEI area?

•    Diversityintech.fyi: A curated list of diversity in tech communities in Ireland and Northern Ireland.

•   Women in High Performance Computing: an all-island organisation spanning Queen’s University Belfast, the University of Galway and TU Dublin.

•   Women in AI Ireland: a non-profit working to increase female representation in AI, which runs mentoring programmes. We ran one of those programmes with them. They are working in this area for good, and for greater understanding, guardrails and so on.