Vickly Twomey Lee is one of Ireland’s most committed grassroots community builders in the technology space. After stumbling into organising a Python meetup around 2004/05, she ran it for 11 years before moving on to organise conferences and founding PyLadies Dublin, which grew from a handful of people to hundreds. She also co-founded Coding Grace, a non-profit offering welcoming, hands-on workshops that bring together coders, artists, designers and makers. With a passionate focus on diversity and inclusion, particularly for women, she works to make tech events welcoming for everyone, championing accessibility and fostering connection over competition. In this interview, she reflects on her journey, inclusion, burnout, mentoring and the risks AI poses to the industry.

1 You’ve spent many years building and supporting communities in Irish technology. What first drew you to the tech scene, and what made you decide that community-building should be part of your work?

I fell into it, to be honest. There were hardly any groups when I started out, and I only heard about things through the Irish Linux meet-up, where, if I was lucky, I would see one or two women. I went to an Iona Technologies talk and heard what other companies and people were going through. My colleagues and I were into Python coding, and a Python group popped up around 2004/05. We got sick of sitting in a dark pub around a tiny computer and moved in to help make it more inclusive and welcoming. Nobody was leading it so I put up my hand and ran it for 11 years. At the time I wasn’t thinking of it as community building; I was panicking about what the next group would be. I just wanted to talk about tech, expand my network and see what other companies were doing. Eventually I got good at it.

I started running conferences around 2010. I would look around at the people attending conferences and not see people like me. I knew they were in the workforce but not turning up to these events. When I ran the Irish Python conference, I began to ask why, and the women said they weren’t confident or techy enough for those conferences. My first female technical leader was from San Francisco, but I had no others, and because of her I launched PyLadies Dublin. That group grew organically. There weren’t many conferences to go to in those days, only a few in other European countries, and when we popped up they took notice. The chair of the Python Software Foundation came to see what we were doing and gave us support. We grew from six to twelve people to nearly 100, and then to 300-plus, or whatever the maximum size of the hotel was.

With PyLadies I wanted to keep things small on purpose, because I wanted to build community. Events can be daunting, so I recognise new faces, introduce myself and invite them to meet new people and make new connections. I try to make it as welcoming as possible and ask as many questions as possible. I always put myself in that person’s shoes in those social situations, and I want to build a welcoming, inclusive and impactful community.

2. You co-founded Coding Grace to create welcoming coding workshops and learning opportunities. What gap did you see, and how has the initiative changed in response to what participants need?

Coding Grace is an Irish non-profit started by me, my husband and a friend. We brainstormed about where women who were in coding, or wanted to get into it, could go. The following year, I ran a workshop at CCT and about 30 women turned up. We wanted to understand what they wanted to learn and why. I think of the workshops I run as a community centre: you see if you like something, and then I point you in the right direction. I had to work out which day and time suited people, and build trust with the community. I also had to make sure it was accessible to all. I wanted to make sure each area of tech wasn’t siloed. The workshops covered individual technologies, such as Python, Raspberry Pi and gaming, but I wanted to make sure that they all interacted with each other too. The only thing I found didn’t work was running things on a Friday evening!

We then ran a series of workshops combining technology and software with physical art and craft. Dublin City Council had a fund, and we ran five workshops, from beginner level through to learning circuits and building physical products.

3. You founded PyLadies Dublin and have helped create spaces for women and others underrepresented in tech. How successful has the initiative been, and what achievements has it won?

It’s not about awards for me. We welcome everyone, and we want people to be themselves and to feel free to ask questions. We’re not there to win achievements. We wanted to aim it at people seeking jobs, and I knew one of the participants worked in recruitment, so I asked her to come along and answer questions about what makes something work and what doesn’t. We like to find respected people to share their lived experience with participants. We try not to go above 30 people, because other meet-ups are far too big. I want one that can fit in a meeting room, and 15 to 20 people is ideal.

Finding spaces is difficult. We still have corporate hosts, which is great, but we’re not about beer and pizza, which isn’t inclusive. COVID changed things a bit: to keep going, we ran coding calls online, and we moved to lightning talks about the projects people are working on and what they are using the technology for. We did keep the pizza, but not the beer. We have zero budget, and pizza and drinks cost €300–400 a month, which isn’t sustainable. That’s how I view PyLadies. I want others to host as well; it’s not just me. Corporates want to host because they don’t have enough women, and it’s sometimes difficult to get women to speak in this area. It’s also difficult to avoid speakers who try to up-sell rather than speak out of love for the tech.

If we do get recognition, it’s great, though.

4. What barriers still make it difficult for women and other underrepresented groups to enter and progress in Ireland’s tech sector, and which practical changes would make the biggest difference?

Working from home is a big one. We need to encourage people to go to events and conferences, but European conferences have seen a big drop in companies sending people and letting them expense it. Layoffs and budget reductions have cut the money available to send staff, and sponsorship has dropped too, while costs have increased in other areas. Personal circumstances come into it as well. Subsidies can be life-changing for some people who otherwise can’t afford to go. At conferences, you make connections, network and see the mini superstars. Encouraging women to give talks shows others what is possible and gives them confidence, though it is becoming more competitive in this area too.

Social gatherings can exclude people when they revolve around drinks or golf. People feel left out, and there are in-jokes and cliques. Those softer things make a huge difference to whether people feel included. Community is another huge area: you can’t socialise after work if you have a two-hour commute. The reduction in days working from home also matters a lot, and there is a lot of nervousness about it.

5. You’ve organised events and workshops across different tech communities. What have you learned about making events accessible and inclusive, from choosing a venue and format to supporting people once they arrive?

•       Signage is important to point people in the right direction.

•       Make sure people feel welcome and can mingle, and that everyone knows where to find the facilities.

•       Make sure everyone’s dietary requirements are up to date.

•       Events held in bars and pubs won’t be as inclusive: there may be stairs with no lift, or it could be too noisy.

•       Follow up on feedback. If someone raises an accessibility issue, make sure it doesn’t happen at the next event.

•       Ensure the technical basics are covered, such as Wi-Fi and car parking etc.

•       The city centre is usually best, as it has the best public transport and gets people home on time.

•       Include maps and a phone number in case anyone has issues.

•       Ensure it’s a safe space where people can ask questions without judgement.

•       Treat the code of conduct as a living document. It changes and gets updated; for example, we recently banned smart glasses because things change all the time.

6. Grassroots initiatives often rely on volunteers and sustained personal effort. How do you keep that work going without overburdening the people who make it happen?

It’s pretty much me and my poor husband, who supports me by helping with workshops and doing things like cleaning up afterwards. It’s about understanding that volunteers are giving their time and that other things take priority too. I try to delegate, but I do burn out often. My husband, friends and family keep me going and can spot the signs. When I delegate, I tell people I’m there if they need me. For example, with getting meetings in town, they can run with it. It takes me a while to hand over the reins of Python Ireland. I’m not employed, so I can work on this full time, whereas others can’t. I am stubborn, but I have rolled back on some things, and I want to work out which of the things I do are most impactful.

Finding volunteers is really difficult at the moment, as other priorities take over, though it differs between organisations. I can’t find enough volunteers to take things over, so I try to find initiatives for them to take on, and I’ll support them. They are afraid to take the first step.

I’m very lucky to have lots of family, friends and community to support me, but I also try to be self-aware about burnout.

7. What role have mentors, role models and peer networks played in your own career, and how can employers make those supports meaningful rather than token gestures?

Early in my career, I made friends with everyone in different departments. At one stage, they realised I liked to dabble in web design, so I helped redevelop the company’s website, which only came through networking. You can’t expect someone to mentor you. Now there is a lot of measurement of your performance, and you don’t get those opportunities. It was a relief, because in my college days I felt it wasn’t safe to ask questions or ask for help. That’s why I’m so adamant about it now: do offer that help. It can be difficult for senior people to ask for help, so give them a helping hand to pass on to others. It’s a good rule outside work as well. You have to learn it from somewhere. Right now, people are anxious about showing weakness, or may not have the knowledge or expertise. That is putting a plaster over a wound; you’re not gaining the experience. Either jump on to the stepping stones or create them yourself. I did everything at the start of my career, and I learnt so much.

Sometimes it’s not even about mentoring. It’s about being aware of people speaking, not talking over them and not dismissing their ideas. It’s about character building, and everyone in the meeting can see it. It spreads from there.

8. You’ve worked across coding, game jams and maker culture. What can these creative, hands-on activities offer people who might not see themselves represented in traditional routes into technology?

I never saw the combination of arts and tech as a path for me. I mentioned earlier that each was in its own silo, and you see this in schools. I always say It’s not STEM, it’s STEAM. I loved the visual side of things at school, and I was doing creative tech before it was a term. For non-technical people, it shows them they can be a crossover. You see films and think about how a really simple process mixing arts and crafts can create an amazing visual effect. Anyone can be a coder; it’s just a question of different levels of experience.

Hands-on activities are getting more popular. In the electronics workshop we ran, people said they wanted to do something physical, get off doomscrolling and get back to making Halloween costumes for example, while still having that crossover of technology and art. We have looked at things like pollution detectors, and I love maths awareness and non-traditional routes in, because they match your interests to the technology that suits your project. It might go in different directions, and you have to find more information. The networking and meeting others is a great aspect of it too. I want to create events I enjoy so that others can enjoy them too.

9. As AI tools and the tech industry evolve, what opportunities or risks do you see for inclusion, and what should educators, employers and community organisers pay attention to?

I don’t have a positive view of AI. It leads to biases against people from minority backgrounds, for example in security cameras and in the use of AI in hiring. With corporates and the public using AI more and more, the industry is not taking on juniors, and a lot of my community say it’s the end of their careers. Very senior people also want to leave the industry because they are burnt out by the amount of AI they have to incorporate into their jobs. Certain AI tools mean you’re talking to a bot, not a person. A lot of senior people are tired of it.

We don’t know where this is going, and it’s changing very fast. It’s very worrying because guardrails have been removed, and it’s hugely disruptive to the environment. Two or three yesars ago, everyone got excited, but I was anxious. I worried about the code you’re using, for example, whether it shows up in audits and affects software licensing. That concern now seems quite quaint. A few years later, the problems are much bigger, and their impact hasn’t been measured yet. Some tools can enable people to create a product or an MVP, for example, and they can be great for trial and error, but I hope that doesn’t replace a real person at the end of the process. I’m a bystander at the moment, and I refuse to use anything to do with generative AI. I would love to see the good projects come to the top, but it’s the scale of it that worries me, along with overdependence on it. Let’s see what happens.

Juniors asking questions and getting wrong answers from AI can be extremely damaging. There are layoffs and a lack of recruitment, and recruitment that uses AI is making it impossible to get a job. 

We need more facts, and more empathy towards employees and the people doing the job. There could be a big black hole when the people who are writing the code now leave, and it’s unclear who will be there to take over.

10. Are there any people, companies or programmes in the tech space in Ireland currently that you think are up and coming in this area or that you think deserve a special mention for their work in the DEI area?

•       Diversityintech.fyi: a whole load of groups from Ireland and Northern Ireland.

•       Women in High Performance Computing: an all-island organisation spanning Queen’s University Belfast, the University of Galway and TU Dublin.

•       Women in AI Ireland: a non-profit working to increase female representation in AI, which runs mentoring programmes. We ran one of those programmes with them. They are working in this area for good, and for greater understanding, guardrails and so on.